#19 Shoulder & Wrist Inflammation - The Fight Within

Inflammation indicates that a fight is going on.
This Judo expert is battling an internal conflict, and the only way she knows how to deal with it is by powering through.
Now that fight has shown up in her physical body and the way she has always handled  issues is no longer working for her.

The pain in her wrist and shoulders has meant she can literally no longer fight.
How do we heal when we don't know how to change?
Listen to this episode to discover the solution to being in constant fight mode.

Tracey x

PS shout out to anyone who wishes to have a conversation with me for the podcast.
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Lots of Love
Tracey x

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:19  
Six months ago, I started to suffer from a of chain injuries. I had been active in martial arts. In Judo, I was competing as a professional athlete in judo since I was five years old. And I'm 32 plus two years, I decided to make a break from competitions and very intensive workouts. And I decided to explore the world. And somehow I ended up again, in my - on the mat, doing the same thing I did before that break. Because my very good friend of mine opened the new club, I was so thrilled and excited about it. And I decided to compete again. So that happened last year in September when I restarted my career. And six months ago, something strange started to happen to my body. First, I started to feel very big pain in my wrists in both wrists, and in my left shoulder. And my right shoulder is I have some metal implants that I gained. Then 15 years ago, I had that injury and I recovered. And now something happened with the left shoulder and with my wrists. So day by day, every day, it was worse than worse. And after two weeks, I couldn't do anything with my wrists anymore. And I couldn't lift up my left arm. I competed, I hit competition with that pain in my body. And I won't I was first but it was very stressful for me. I cried like a kid. I didn't know what happened. It was not that I was afraid. But something happened inside of me. That is what I noticed. Later on, it gets even worse, and I had to see my doctor, they said that I have inflammation of my tendons in both wrists. And then then the inflammation in my shoulder, the same tendon later on, they discovered that they have called suffocates calcification. And now the last, the last result that I because I had to do MRI because nothing helped. No matter what I did, I did a lot of therapies such as shockwave therapy, and they said, Well, this is the best this is gonna help you for sure. But it didn't. And I said, Okay, I have to do MRI, and I did it. And they they discovered a lot of things. I suffer a lot because of that. It doesn't let me I cannot sleep. I cannot do anything. And I personal coach. So it affects my business as well. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And now, I didn't just say one important thing that that judo and Brazilian jujitsu that I do. That's my biggest passion. That's that's something that makes me happy. And now it's like, I'm so limited, you know, I cannot do something that makes me happy. Something that is like, way to forget everything.

Tracey  3:26  
Yes. So what is it you're trying to forget?

Unknown Speaker  3:31  
Somehow, when I put my Judo game, that's the uniform. I forget about all the world that surrounds me. I'm focused on breathing. And on that fire and passion that I feel while doing that to do the fight. I'm forgetting about all obligations, all stress, all the things that all the people that are that rely on me, you know, I feel like I have to help all of them. And that's the moment when I don't have to do anything about them.

Tracey  4:05  
Well, here's the clue you see are so there's something else going on in your life. That creates some sort of stress and you have some at some level. And you've got the thing that you love doing that you really want to do. But something is drawing you back into your into your life with the obligations, and the other people are relying on you to look at it in order to clear that what you're not doing when you're doing Judo is addressing the issues that are lying around in the rest of your life. Does that make sense? Yeah. So it's great to follow your passion, but also it sounds like this is forcing you to clear something, some other things that are within your life that don't make you as happy as the judo does that'd be right to say,

Unknown Speaker  5:02  
yeah, the very moment when I decided to compete again, this injury started to appear. Right before. When I did it for recreation, it was fine. But when the friend asked me they want to compete first the answer was no. But then something was like, Yeah, inside of me like, yeah, you need this, just do it. And then soon after that decision, this started to, like, punish me.

Tracey  5:33  
Right. Okay. And so let's just talk for a minute about the way your body's feeling right now. So, so what happens in your shoulder and your wrists right now? Is the pain still evident every day? Yes. And how do you notice it? When do you notice it?

Unknown Speaker  5:55  
It's day, 24 hours, that pain this shoulder is pulsing all day, when I have to pull something with the left hand, it's impossible. Without pain, it is possible, but with pain, about the wrists. You know, I feel as they're so fragile, as they have to take care of my wrists, wrists all the day, you know, and before you know, Judo is a lot about pulling and pushing. And you need to grab your, your partner, doggy. And so the hands are very strong. Right now. I feel like they're so big. I can break them every second, right? Okay, yeah. When I'm doing something with my students when I because I have my own judo club now. And I'm showing techniques to the kids. And I see out of nowhere, I see that, for example, I grabbed the dog in something like, click inside and I feel like Whoa, did I did I broke it like, or I'm just walking in doing something something like ordinary, some ordinary thing, like switching off the lights. And the same thing can be like, I always feel like something will happen.

Tracey  7:08  
So what's it like feeling fragile? Now in your life?

Unknown Speaker  7:12  
I feel very weak. I feel like I'm losing. I'm losing my base. Yeah, I feel like I'm the very fundamental of my strength is going away.

Tracey  7:24  
Yes. And so how is that making you feel inside? How is that making you feel emotion,

Unknown Speaker  7:31  
I'm afraid I'm going to lose everything that I was actually that I'm going to my identity is going to crush because that is what I am like, I'm the fighter. I'm the warrior. And I'm basing that to my students. And I'm working with people. And people comes to me to ask for help to make them more braver, like to give them a courage. And now I'm I feel like I don't have anything to give any more.

Tracey  8:02  
Right? Okay. And has there been any other time in your life that you felt like this? Well,

Unknown Speaker  8:09  
I don't remember that it was so intense as now. I used to be afraid from time to time, so many things happened, but not like this. I have never felt like this before. Either what I do with myself, I feel like I'm losing.

Tracey  8:25  
Okay. I'm just interested in something that you said earlier about your obligations, I hear that you've got a job and that it's reliant on your physical strength, but what else is going on in your life that might create the stress or might create the feeling of obligation?

Unknown Speaker  8:46  
While I feel so overwhelmed? You know, my day is like, tick tock tick tock tick tock was the next on the clock all day running, and I'm aware of it. And I feel so frustrated. Because it's, for example, I wake up, I have to make breakfast I'm eating immediately I have to take the dog out, then I have a first session with the client, then second and third, then I need to rest. It's like, I gotta do this. I gotta do this. I gotta do this. It's all the day is fulfilled. Even even it's so it's so ironic that you say like, now I have to meditate like it's you cannot say like, I have to meditate because it's obligation. Again, the meditation is not an obligation. I feel so imprisoned by those obligations and overwhelmed and they increased in last three months. So fast, because so many people contacted me when I feel like I'm just doing the things you know.

Tracey  9:51  
Yeah. So, so you feel obligated to all these people that are coming towards you. And what stops you from saying no due to them.

Unknown Speaker  10:02  
I was thinking about it too. I feel like I cannot say no, I feel like I have to help them. And if I don't do that, then I'm gonna lose all my money. All my business is going to crash. I'm gonna stay alone without any funds.

Tracey  10:21  
Okay, so what I hear you saying there is I'm going to worst case scenario. Yeah. So just putting down a boundary and saying no to somebody really mean that you're going to lose your whole business and all your income

Unknown Speaker  10:35  
either more, why is it so strong? But it really feels like that inside of me.

Tracey  10:41  
It's. So you're coming from a place of fear? Fear of scarcity, fear of weakness, fear of what if it all collapses? Yeah. And do you have a history with fear?

Unknown Speaker  10:54  
Long history? Yeah, I will. How far back since I remember myself,

Tracey  11:00  
and what sort of fears would come up for you, as a child, some of the earliest things you can remember,

Unknown Speaker  11:06  
I was always being afraid that I'm gonna stay alone and abundant from everybody else. And that I really have to think and calculate, how am I going to manage to keep them to keep that attention, no matter which kind of attention with what type of attention but that's something I realised that the biggest fear is fear of being alone and abundant and rejected.

Tracey  11:32  
And is it okay to ask you what circumstances in your childhood might have created that worry for you?

Unknown Speaker  11:40  
Yeah, it's okay. I had very nice young parents, but they get their own goals, you know, and I was living with my grandparents on the village on the countryside, not with my parents. And I remember very well, the time is them a lot, you know, and I did everything that get their attention. I think that that's, that's the way I ended up doing judo. Because my father actually was a very famous Judo fighter, popular one in the country. And then I started when I was three years old. That's how I blink it. Yes. That's why I think because I don't remember why do I start? I mean, I don't even remember that those first years. But now when I look back to it, I could do something else. Something more fun, right? Something not so dangerous.

Tracey  12:32  
Yeah. That it made your father happy.

Unknown Speaker  12:35  
I mean, maybe yes. But you know, he's the guy who he has his own way of thinking. I cannot say that I understand him. I cannot say clearly yes, he was happy because I didn't feel that I felt that actually he was just trying to prove something, something that maybe he didn't he couldn't do, because he quitted when he was young, as well, because he had a lot of injuries. And so you

Tracey  13:04  
witnessed his injuries as well. What did you What did you see what did you witness in your father when he became injured?

Unknown Speaker  13:11  
I'm angry and he was very furious. Furious, very, very furious and angry with the world you know? Yeah, overt was was guilty for his injuries, everybody except him.

Tracey  13:27  
Right? And what were the consequence of his injuries as well in his life,

Unknown Speaker  13:33  
several times, he had to do some interventions with his legs and he has metal implants as well, like metal near metal hip, he has great difficulties to walk. He's walking, but in pain.

Tracey  13:50  
And so you watching this happening? What did that bring up for you as you as you witnessed all of this?

Unknown Speaker  13:58  
You know, because of that relationships in my family changed. I think that the mother was fed up with everything that was going on, and he felt it but he couldn't process it. So some argue started to hit them. I was witnessing him losing his not losing him his mind literally, but trying to escape the reality in every way that he could, that was like you're you're watching someone who is from in one minute in from one minute to another, a different, completely different person from someone who is cheerful and playful to someone who is completely mad. And I've witnessed that and I was afraid as a kid because I missed him because the guy that goes running my father is super super guy, but he was losing himself. Oh my life.

Tracey  14:53  
Yeah. And so it really makes sense what you're saying and can you see this pattern? And what's happening in your life now?

Unknown Speaker  15:02  
Well, I cannot see it clearly I can. Sometimes I'm like, very, I'm spending hours of thinking, but it doesn't help. Like I'm thinking and sometimes from my intellectual side, I understand but actually, emotionally, I cannot follow to be honest.

Tracey  15:18  
Okay, before we sort of go a bit further into that, can I ask you is there around six months ago, when all these injuries started to happen? Was there anything that had changed for you, or anything that was going on, or any thoughts that were coming in that were related to fear or anything to do with your parents?

Unknown Speaker  15:40  
Yeah, things were happening. First, I had to go to work in Africa. European Union called me because I'm very good in that what I do, and they wanted to hire me to work, to educate the security guards to educate them about self defence, and accepted, even though it was very dangerous. And in December, they said that, I mean, it didn't work. Because in that country where I had to go, work started, so they cancelled everything. And a part of that, that meant that I needed again, to focus on this business time working, like personal trainings. And I had, it was very stressful, you know, because, yes, all my life were organised for that trip to Africa. And then suddenly, it's changed and I had to reorganise again. And a part of that, I had difficulties with my partner. And the third thing that happened is that I wanted to give the judo club to my students, very good student. And I asked him to manage the club, instead of me to be like someone who will manage while I'm gone while I'm not there while I'm absent. And then it comes, it comes again that I have to run it again, you know, and those three things happen in the same the very same period, like in one month. Yeah. And my copay, my competition in the same month. So many things happened.

Tracey  17:12  
Yeah, so there was a lot of fear there. But it makes me think about what you're trying to hold on to. When your plans change very quickly, you've got to be in control. You were trying to make sure that everything was safe and secure for you. Yeah. Yeah. Does that make sense to you? Yes,

Unknown Speaker  17:31  
I was very anxious in that period of time. I was losing control here. Because I didn't know what was going to happen next minute, you know?

Tracey  17:40  
Yeah, the risks are quite often about control. Because from the strength in our wrists, we can use our fingers and our hands to manipulate and to, and to do the fine work that is required to control our environment or so there's often a message in that wrist because, like you said before, you can't push and you can't pull, and you can't grip and you can't hold on to anything. Exactly. So would it be fair to say it felt like things were sort of slipping? And you are having to hold on to them? Through through this? Yeah. And then there's the fear coming up, that I can't lose everything. I don't want to lose everything I've got to hold on.

Unknown Speaker  18:30  
Yeah, I was I was thinking that I'm losing everything. In one month, I was thinking, Am I going to see my family? Again? If I go to that Africa, or what am I? How am I going to survive if I don't go? Many things.

Tracey  18:45  
And it's also a very singular thing to do, isn't it? Yeah, if you think about earlier in your life, when you have that, when you worried about being on your own and being abandoned, and being left, you know, you're actually you're using your strength and your willpower to do these things in the world. But you're actually going to be on your own in in that in Africa, if you went. Yeah, it sounds like that period of time. In that place, was activating some old fears. And some old worries.

Unknown Speaker  19:19  
Yeah, but so intense that I could barely stand them. Like it was very high intensity.

Tracey  19:26  
Yeah. Everything you do seems to be quite high intensity, I think. Yeah. And so there's an inner strength inside of you that is, is keeps pushing you on pushing you on, but who are you really who's in there behind that behind the warrior woman? You know,

Unknown Speaker  19:47  
that's the question. I can witness that trend. We are talking about and I I can feel my power. I can feel them. I'm working with people and I can clearly see it but yeah, there is As someone who is very, very small and unprotected inside of me, I feel that I really need to protect myself all the time, even in some, you know, ordinary activities during the day. And I feel this pain all the time now.

Tracey  20:19  
So let me ask you this, then. So you're in this place now where you're working, you're pushing yourself through the pain, it sounds like, yeah. What is it that your body really wants to do?

Unknown Speaker  20:32  
I don't know. That's what confused me a lot. One part of me saying like that, I'm so thrilled and happy when I go to do my Judo sessions. And when I fight with people, but the other other side is saying, like, I don't know, I just don't do anything. And then I'm, if I don't do something, I'm angry with myself. And if I do something, then I'm in pain. So I really am confused.

Tracey  21:05  
Okay, yeah. Okay, I get that. So there's a lot of conflict going on inside of you. And inflammation is a battle going on inside. It's an immune reaction that is in fight mode. So if you don't do anything, you said, you're angry with yourself? Yes. Why do you think you're angry with yourself when you don't do anything?

Unknown Speaker  21:27  
Because they think, I mean, maybe it's funny, but I think if I don't do the thing that I said that I'm going to do, I'm going to be vague, I'm gonna lose it, I'm going to be you're going to be vague. You need to do this and that. And if you skip lessons from Brazilian jujitsu or judo, you're gonna, everybody's going to be like, they will, you know, stress you.

Tracey  21:51  
And is that true?

Unknown Speaker  21:53  
I don't know, I didn't give myself a chance to.

Tracey  21:58  
To test. So what I'm hearing is a lot of self criticism, when you don't create an action. I don't believe that self criticism is you, I believe it's come from elsewhere, you've learned to maybe just through the judo side of things, you know, maybe what you've learned from the understanding of what it is to be successful and be that fighter. But if you had a, if you had a three year old child who was learning judo in front of you, would you really be that critical about about them? Never.

Unknown Speaker  22:40  
I know what, it's awful to hear the criticism all the time.

Tracey  22:46  
So you've got a critical voice inside of you, that is telling you, if you rest, if you stop, you're, you're weak. And when we're asking, Is it true? That you said I don't give myself time to think about it. But if you give yourself time to think about it a little bit, right now. Is it true that if you rest your week,

Unknown Speaker  23:09  
I'm so afraid to stop that? A rational mind is saying of course is not true. But inner voice a saying or?

Tracey  23:21  
Well just notice that then because that's it's these are the conflicts that are going on the rational, the rational mind is saying no, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't criticise anyone else, for just taking some time out or putting a boundary down and just pausing for a moment and rethinking. But inside of you is that voice that's going whoa, don't stop. Don't stop, don't stop. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying about that voice not being the true version of you. That's the that's the learnt version that I will be accepted. If I keep going. If I keep fighting. I can't let my guard down for a minute. Because I I need to make sure that I am safe all the time. Yeah, I feel like that. And so what is your body making you do?

Unknown Speaker  24:18  
What's my body making me do? It's saying like, you cannot do it anymore?

Tracey  24:23  
Well, it's not saying you can't do it anymore. It's just saying, can we just pause because it's not all or nothing. This injuries heal, this will all this will all heal, but your body's asking you just to take a bit of time out to review. What else is going on underneath the drive? There's a big drive to keep moving. And there's a big drive to not sit back because you've also sort of witnessed in your father. What happens if you stop here, learning is all It's all floating around in the background and driving you. And your body's going, Oh, no, no, just hold on, just hold on, let's just just let's just address some of this emotional, past and old stuff that's coming up the fear, the worry. And let's just pause for a moment and regroup. Because you're not your father. And the same thing that happened to him is not going to happen to you. But we have beliefs around that. Yeah. So what if you came towards your business in a whole different way, like you are your business, and people want you. And if you put your boundaries down, and say, Actually, I can only do this much on this day, and then I'm going to have them get going to rest and have timeout for myself making some physical boundaries, saying no to people, do you think they will punish you for it? And never come back?

Unknown Speaker  26:14  
To be honest? I

Tracey  26:15  
do. Okay, well, I'll ask that same question. Is that true?

Unknown Speaker  26:19  
There's my fear. But maybe No,

Tracey  26:23  
it's a it's a fear. But just because you're carving out some boundaries, time for yourself, doesn't mean that you're not available to help them. It just means that you can only do it within these within this time. And oh, I'm going to have to start a waiting list. Because I haven't got haven't actually got physically got time to see everybody. And if you've got a waiting list, what does that make you? I don't know? Well, if you were to go to somebody, if you were going to go to some training with somebody, and you knew this one person had a waiting list and people were waiting, see them? And the other one could get you in tomorrow?

Unknown Speaker  27:05  
Well, I would think that the the, the trainer that coaches wanted to because of his quality, actually,

Tracey  27:13  
exactly. So you put your prices up. And you make people wait a little bit, so you can have the boundaries that you need and the space that you need for yourself. And that makes you a better teacher. You're mirroring to your students, what it's like to take care of yourself. No warrior fights, 24 hours, seven days a week. Is that true? That's That's true. Right, you know, all all warriors have to look after themselves, or athletes have to look after themselves. Yeah, right. And of course, you know. And so could you could this whole situation be extended to that, as in this is more about putting those boundaries down? Knowing that actually, you have got a long career ahead of you. And it's not going to end? Yeah, yeah. Do you have examples of people that you know of that have got longevity in, in this industry? So what makes you think that it's all going to collapse and disappear, if you don't give you give of yourself all the time,

Unknown Speaker  28:36  
I started to be afraid when this pen arrived, and I was thinking like, Whoa, this is a sign that now I have to retire. And this is a sign that, like I'm getting older and I have to quit?

Tracey  28:50  
Well, maybe it's not maybe maybe it's just a sign. You need to take bit more time for yourself. You're not obligated to all these people, you can teach them in so many different ways. You're not, you're not limited to only ever being active, there's all sorts of different things that you you know, you can employ in terms of online teaching, in developing their own skills that don't always involve you doing the physical fighting 24/7

Unknown Speaker  29:23  
Yeah, there are many methods. Yeah.

Tracey  29:27  
But I just I just want to sort of draw your attention to the fact that fear because the because the fear is out of proportion, with the situation because of where it comes from because of your history. And because of what you witnessed in your father. The fear of loss. The fear of I'll lose everything. Yeah. I mean,

Unknown Speaker  29:53  
that's what happened, actually. Yeah.

Tracey  29:54  
I witnessed it. Yeah. So it's understandable that it will create fear for you. But can you also see that you are different from him? He will. And you're not living his life. So these fears sit within us and just, you know, can be a little drop of acid that Luke keeps burning a hole in our mind and keeps driving us. My belief is that you've got a very long career in front of you, because I can feel your passion for it. The injuries are about a message about your fear about how hard you're trying to cling on, and hold on to things when actually, you're controlling everything anyway, just with your energy. Your business is you. So you're not going to let go of that. All the while you're talking and teaching about judo. And you can change and alter the way that you teach and grow. Because everybody, everybody in those sorts of industries and in athletics in any form, you know, they come across this turning this point don't they weren't their bodies is not as agile, or maybe as flexible or is asking for more rest at some point. But people continue in this industry, if they become more balanced, you know, maybe the amount of fighting you do, you know, is maybe needs to lesson but the other side of teaching can increase.

Unknown Speaker  31:38  
I follow your and I understand everything that you said. But I will have, I mean, I'm afraid that they'll have difficulties with to understand that something has to change in my perception of how life has to be and what I have to do in my life to keep that strength and not to be like when you say your fight, maybe have to less than like decrease a number of for example, fights during the day. And I'm like, No. Like immediately the resistance No.

Tracey  32:19  
Just notice inside of yourself the resistance to changing things. Yeah. You're you're somebody who's used to fighting and is used to that idea that I have to fight to move forward with not just in your world, in your in your career, but also just within yourself. Yes. So what I'm thinking about is, how important flexibility is how, and there's a question for you How important is flexibility in judo?

Unknown Speaker  32:52  
It's a main thing maybe.

Tracey  32:55  
Right? And so what if somebody's not flexible enough? What happens?

Unknown Speaker  33:01  
If the person is not flexible? The person has to work on flexibility, otherwise he cannot make a progress.

Tracey  33:08  
Exactly. And so the same is happening here for you. Yeah. Except it's, it may not be physical, it may be more emotional. And in your mind, you're already creating limitations for yourself is that if you're saying I'm going to have difficulty doing that, yes. Yeah. So what if you say, Okay, I am going to work on and I'm going to move forward with seeing that I don't have to do things the same way as I've always done them, I am allowed to be flexible in my approach.

Unknown Speaker  33:42  
Nicely said, I will remember the sentence sometimes the very simple sentence can can push you forward, the more

Tracey  33:50  
flexibility that you do have in everything to do with your life, everything. Then actually, the more you can roll with the ups and downs of of everything. Whether it's emotional, or whether it's in your physical world. The more flexibility of thoughts you have, the less rigid you are about what rules are coming up. And so that implies for yourself, you know, when there's a critical voice, a critical voice is very inflexible. I feel weak. If I don't do this, this and this. It doesn't allow for much flexibility in that. So it's about softening that internal voice as well. Flexibility doesn't mean weakness. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  34:44  
Actually, it's going to be something new for me.

Tracey  34:49  
Which is good because life's all about newness. And growth, isn't it and change. So let's just say to us just wrap this up by going okay, so what what thing Things do you think are happening in your life now that you could be more flexible about

Unknown Speaker  35:06  
many things, such as those obligations that I put to myself to have, I think that I have to do every task in if I want to make successful self development, even in spirituality, or in physical body, because it's everything connected to me, even the business is not separated from my spiritual growth as well. That's how I see things. Yeah, that moment when I, when I apply that flexibility rule, in one area of my life, I know that it's going to be applied in every area. Definitely, I know how I function. So when you say when you ask me, what part of your life has to change has to be more flexible. I mean, everything

Tracey  35:58  
that comes doesn't it, it's just like taking some of the rules away some of the fixed thoughts away, and seeing how everything expands and grows with that. And how it's reflects then in your body,

Unknown Speaker  36:13  
of 30 feet, like immediately.

Tracey  36:17  
To be flexible is also to be more relaxed within your body as well. And to be much more fluid. Fluid. That's a great word. Yes. And when you think of your shoulder having that calcification and it needs more fluidity. I love that word fluidity, if you can embody that more, it will translate to your body, and your body will allow itself to heal. But all the while you're telling it, it's weak, that's not going to help your body heal. How are you feeling?

Unknown Speaker  36:51  
I'm excited, a little bit excited, and I'm burning, my face is burning. Because I know that it's a big step when you really start to work on that realisation. I mean, it's so easy, being flexible down. Not all the time. But being flexible, very, you need to be flexible, because that stiffness is something that you have to break through, right. That's why I'm because it's not that I didn't try before.

Tracey  37:21  
So it's just noticing is noticing when those thoughts come up. I have got to or there's a critical voice inside of you notice those thoughts. Just notice them and go oh, okay, I hear you. I'm not that I'm going to be more fluid

Unknown Speaker  37:38  
and happy because I think the time on the good path, because the way that I exercise right now is that fluid movements. I mean, they are a little bit restricted because of this thing. But I think the point is, I'm going to try to implement this flexibility, more of my way of thinking, you know, my understanding of my emotions. And then I'll see how is it going with the body? Yeah, see where you get to with it. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you.

Tracey  38:14  
You're very welcome. Right. I hope that was helpful for you.

Unknown Speaker  38:17  
It is, it's helpful. Thank you for your time.

Tracey  38:21  
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this, you'll find a lot more content on my Instagram account at the healing point dot underscore. If you have a question you'd like to explore and are willing to take part in the podcast, you'll find all the information you need on my website, which is www.traceystevens.org/podcast Thanks and see you soon.